A Larger Scam Than Electoral Bonds’: Anjali Bhardwaj Levels Huge Allegations Against The PMO https://youtu.be/m4XQM-w3M84 | BJP
HW News English Anjali Bhardwaj discusses the Prime Minister's Citizen Assistance and Relief in Emergency Situations Fund (PM CARES Fund) which was set up during the COVID-19 pandemic. Citing lack of transparency, Bhardwaj draws parallel between PM CARES Fund and the Electoral Bonds and hints at a possible ‘Quid Pro Quo’ between the government and the donors. Bhardwaj goes further to say that “The PM CARES is a larger scam than the Electoral Bonds”.
the government the pmo very quickly started saying we are not a Public Authority the PM cares is not a Public
Authority they said and they said that this is a private fund now that means
that when you want to collect money you will say we are a Public Authority when you want to give information or rather
not give information you very quickly say we are not a Public Authority audit is happening why are you worried now
what we are seeing very clearly is that the last 2 years the audited statement
is not been put up on the website why is it that the audit is not even being done
now or is it that the audit is being done but the report is not going to be shared with the public the possibility
of quit bro the possibility of extortion the possibility of regulatory inaction
that we saw in electoral bonds is all possible here because this is exactly
the same in terms of the possibilities as the instrument of electoral bonds now
why did we call electoral bonds the mother of all scams because we were
saying that although the Electoral bonds the funds the amount was only 165,000 CR
but the corruption Scandal was worth billions of rupees now here it's the
same thing so far from the audited accounts the information that we have is
that more than 23,000 rupees were given to the PM
carees Fund in the first 3 years itself so you can only imagine that if a fund
like this is used for quid proo which it could be I'm not saying it has been but
there is a clear possibility just like the Electoral bonds that it could be if it is used for extortion if it is used
for regulatory inaction quit Proco then we have an possibly an
even larger scam than electoral Bonds on our hands we are going into election
after election we have a situation where this fund continues to be a black hole
where behind a veale of secrecy money is getting collected at a very large scale
and we don't know where that money is going who is giving that money so I
think you feel this is and you feel that this is one of the biggest scams in fact bigger than the Electoral Bond I think
that this is a huge huge scam the fact that the information is being withheld
itself to me is
scandalous hello and a warm welcome to HW News Network your onstop show truth be told for some engaging and
thought-provoking conversations [Music]
I think many many of you must have forgotten about the PM carees fund which was introduced during the covid times in
the name of emergency it's 2024 four years later people are still struggling
to find out those kind of details as to who has donated the money for the PM
carees fund who are the beneficiaries who has got help from the government and
uh it raises lot of speculation because everything looks like a dark secret and
that is why I thought that in the middle of Elections it's important to talk about this issue because time and again
corruption is being talked about and uh parties are raising fingers at each
other on corruption but what about this corruption which exists and which has
been hidden away in the dark uh corners
of the pmo that is the prime minister's office uh if you look at one of the
tweets a very recent tweet by transparency activist and lawyer loesh batra and loesh batra pointed out that
till date 2020 was the year when the PM cares fund was introduced and till date
uh if you look at the PM cares fund portal it continues to display the
audited statements only up to 2021 and 2022 which means that for 2023 and 2024
the auditing is missing and this is a very important link which raises the
question that is this PM carees fund one of the dark secrets of prime minister's
office which needs to be unraveled just like the Electoral bonds joining me now
is the renowned transparency activist anjeli badage this evening with us thank you so much anjeli for joining and the
first question what lokesh batra has pointed out that the the last audited uh
uh the statement which we see uh is from 2021 and 2022 now how worrying is this
as ECT and of which nobody is discussing people have forgotten about this PM care
fund is this like a black hole which now needs to be unraveled just like the Electoral
bonds yes Neu I think it's a very very important issue because this is
something that is that has great public interest look the PM cares was set up
with the objective of helping people at the time of distress in the time of an
eer emergency whether it is a health emergency like covid or due to a natural
disaster so now when a fund like this is set up naturally the assumption is that
the money that is collected and how it is used would be known to everyone this
is public money in any democracy people have a right to know what funds are
being collected how their money is being disbursed it's a basic constitutional fundamental right the right to
information now now what has happened the Prime Minister under his
chairmanship in an ex official capacity set up a trust and the trust was called
the PM carees fund the trust has as its trustees three senior Union cabinet
ministers again in their ex official capacity so we are talking about the top
amongst the top four politicians the top four ministers in our country in our
cabinet being on a trust how can this be a private trust how can this be a not be
a Public Authority that's the first question the PM cares was set up with
the objective of ensuring that if there is a disaster people can be helped why
should information about where the money is coming from and who is receiving the help be kept away from people why should
be there be a veil of secrecy when in information about this fund is sought
now let us understand how this worked out the chronology if if we we can call
that that 28th of March 2020 is when the
fund was set up this was 4 days before the financial year ended the 2020
Financial year ended in in the year 2020 4 days before the 31st of March this
fund was set up within 4 days the PM cares fund received
over 3,000 CR rupees that's a huge sum of money for any fund to receive within
four days and a lot of that money came from CSR funds the corporate social
responsibility funds if one looks at the company's act who can get CSR funds it
is very very clear it said that only the PM Relief Fund could get it or any
organization or body that was set up by the central government could get these funds and the ministry of corporate
Affairs put out a notification telling everybody all the psus and corporates that you can give
CSR funds to the PM cares fund which basically meant that they said that this
is a central government setup body which means it is covered under the RTI act as
well so so when the fund was set up money was to be collected it was clearly
shown and declared that this was a Public Authority when people started
asking for information on where the money was coming from where the money was going the government the pmo very
quickly started saying we are not a Public Authority the PM cares is not a
Public Authority they said and they said that this is a private fund now now that
means that when you want to collect money you will say we are a Public Authority when you want to give
information or rather not give information you very quickly say we are not a Public Authority and how did they
do that the retrospectively amended the company's act because the company's act
the schedule seven of the company's Act was amended 2 months after the PM cares
came in to retrospectively say that in addition to the prime minister's Relief
Fund and central government setup bodies the PM cares can also receive funds so
now just look at this the government basically is now trying to hide behind
this Clause to say that look it's not a Public Authority it was not set up by the central government it got money we
are not going to give you information the only thing we were told is you don't have to worry as Citizens when we ask
asked for information people were told that audit is happening why are you
worried now what we are seeing very clearly is that the last two years the
audited statement is not been put up on the website why is it that the audit is
not even being done now or is it that the audit is being done but the report is not going to be shared with the
public so I think what we are seeing is a very very concerning Trend very
parallel to the Electoral Bond situation where the government uh the Prime
Minister when was asked very clearly that give us the information what is there to hide in the Electoral bonds how
people are funding who is funding political parties where they are spending uh These funds that information
what we were told it's not going to be covered under the RTI act now that is exactly what has been done with PM cares
and it raises very very serious questions it does raise very serious
questions but do you think that this is also a gross violation of laws by the
pmo and uh who would be accountable is it going to be the Ministry of Finance is it going to be the pmo directly uh
how is the accountability going to be held in this aspect look n it this violates our
fundamental right to know if you recall under uh the uh uh judgment which was
delivered the landmark judgment which which was delivered by the Constitution bench of the Supreme Court on the
Electoral bonds matter the court had held that the right to information is a
fundamental right of citizens and if the right to information is violated Article
19 of the Constitution which guarantees us the right to free speech and expression is violated so this is a
violation because people have a right to know in democracy how funds are
collected and where the funds are being spent in their name and here if any
Court were to hear this matter carefully and were to pass a judgment I will be
very surprised if they don't arrive at the same conclusion that they did with electoral bonds now what was happening
with electoral bonds when the Judgment was finally written the Judgment clearly says that why is it important that
people have this information because the court said that there is a possibility of a quidd
proo what happens is that if a company let's say wants to get a favor from the
government they can give money to the government behind closed doors behind a veale of secrecy and get a favor from
the government now that is the exact same possibility that arises in the PM
carees fund as well where it is perfectly possible that a company gives
money to the PM carees fund and then the uh government gives that company a big
contract or the government says we will not act against you despite there being
some Primacy evidence of wrongdoing on the part of the company so all sorts of
possibilities that existed in the Electoral bonds case exist here as well
the possibility of quit roko the possibility of extortion the possibility
of regul inaction that we saw in electoral bonds is all possible here because this is
exactly the same in terms of the possibilities as the instrument of
electoral bonds where you give money and you get a favor in return so we are
talking about the Prime Minister sitting as the chairperson of this trust I think
it's querly the responsibility therefore of the Prime minister to make sure that the fund that
he's running is run transparently to make sure that when he is sitting in an
ex official capacity Neu he's not sitting in his private capacity the
ministers who are sitting in an ex-official capacity they are not sitting in a private capacity it is not
that Mr Narendra Modi after he seizes to be prime minister will still be the chairperson so if the prime minister of
our country is the chairperson of the fund how can we accept the fact that
this fund is a private fund and then to say that money is going to be collected
as if it was set by set up by the central government and it was a private Authority then how can the government
deny us information how can the government after collecting money say no now we are not a Public Authority this
is absolute impunity and I think that it's a fit case for the Supreme Court to
hold a hearing and hearings and to declare this to be a Public Authority
this this has known to be done in the past for Many Bodies which tried to evade transparency and accountability
and I really think that when we said in the Electoral bonds case that the
Judgment was fantastic but it came too late I hope that in the PM Care's case
now the there are several petitions in the court cours that the courts act with
some sense of IM of urgency because this is not a matter that should be taken
lightly there there is a huge ramification to the lack of transparency
that exists and there could be lives at stake why do I say that in Maharashtra
in aabad District there were ventilators during covid that were given from the PM
cares fund because the ventilators carried the sticker on them which said
PM cares now these ventilators were malfunctioning it caused the deaths of
many people many patients when the matter went up to the aabad court the
court asked for documents and the court was told that this is a private entity
the documents were not provided and the stickers were removed from the
ventilators and they were told no no this didn't come from the PM cares look how transparency lack of transparency
can lead to evasion of accountability people are dying people died because of
faulty ventilators which carried the sticker of pmk but when people asked for
information under the RTI act when the courts are asking the the citizens of
the country are being told that this is not a Public Authority this is a private
body therefore we can't give you information now this is very very very
problematic you one can't have these instruments running with Prime Ministers
of democracies we are saying we are the largest democracy in the in the world you can't have the prime minister of a
largest democracy or any democracy sitting as a chair in an ex official capacity of a trust and saying that I'm
not going to give you information how is this even possible and how is this
acceptable in a democratic framework that is the question that Mr Modi has to answer and I think that if the Prime
Minister even today recognizes that this is so undemocratic this is so incorrect
it has such huge ramifications for our democracy he should immediately make the
information available what are people asking for people are saying that you have set up a fund to give us
ostensively give us the people of India certain fac facilities when we need them
in an emergency what is there to hide what does the government want to hide what does the pmo want to hide what does
the Prime Minister want to hide no but Ang I what I fail to
understand I don't know where when the courts will take up this matter and we've all been been waiting that when
they will take up the pmes fund but there doesn't seem to be enough pressure coming in from the political parties as
well I'm talking about the opposition it doesn't talk too much about the PM Care's fund what is the reason I mean
there was pressure as far as the Electoral bonds was concerned but what about PM Care's fund it seems that even
the opposition has forgotten this I think it's very unfortunate uh
Neu and you're absolutely right in a democracy in a multi-party democracy we
are we are not hearing any political party take up this issue I mean this
should be a matter that should be taken up in the Parliament that should be debated there there should be a
discussion there should be pressure built but clearly political parties are
failing us failing us as Citizens and as Citizens as concerned people of the
country there are many people who have been raising is these questions there are people who've been filing any number
of RTI requests to ask for this information hitting a uh you know there
is stonewalling clearly that's happening but people are asking this information at Great risk to the themselves also but
we are seeing a complete silence from political parties in I would say that
why should a BJP also not ask its leaders to make this information public
by the bhartia Jan party came to power on the plank of anti-corruption this is
a clear instrument which can facilitate the largest scale corruption what did we
see in electoral bonds Neu electoral bonds of only
165,000 CR rupees were transacted but in return there were billions of rupees
worth worth contracts that were given out now why did we call electoral bonds
the mother of all scams because we were saying that although the Electoral bonds
the funds the amount was only 165,000 CR but the corruption Scandal was worth
billions of rupees now here it's the same thing so far from the audited
accounts the information that we have is that more than 23,000 CR rupees were given to the PM
carees Fund in the first three years itself the last two years information is
not even available so we can clearly assume that it's more much more than the
Electoral bond funds this PM carees funds is much more than what the
Electoral bonds that were given were so you can only imagine that if a fund like
this is used for quid proo which it could be I'm not saying it has been but
there is a clear possibility just like the Electoral bonds that it could be if it is used for extortion if it is used
for regulatory inaction quit proo then we have an possibly an even larger scam
than electoral Bond on our hands and I think that it's it's urgent that the
courts of the country intervene the courts hear this matter and I think it's
very important I mean look if if opposition parties don't want to take this up it's it's their uh I mean I
think it's their decision but as Citizens as the media I think it's very
important that we keep the pressure on I'm really glad that you have chosen to do this debate today because this topic
needs to be debated we need to have a discussion on this and people need to
understand that these kind of funds these kind of instruments have no place in a democracy how can we say look we
don't know whether somebody is giving money to the PM carees fund and you know
influencing several other processes what do elections mean in a context like this
so we have to understand that if we value democracy we value free and fair elections we value the fact that we have
certain constitutional fundamental rights we have to speak up and it's very
important that this particular fund be struck down and I really hope that the
courts uh listen they do a hearing quickly and they don't keep this
languishing this is not a matter that should be taken U you know lightly by
the Judiciary Andel for the viewers knowledge sake if I'm ask you how many
petitions are there which are pending on PM Care's fund and it's like how many years since the court has not taken up
this matter look the uh the PM carees fund
was set up in March 2020 so it was set
up on the 28th of March 2020 PM care started accepting funds they ostensively
started giving funds one of the things that we would were told uh during the
whole pandemic when it was at its peak was that the PM carees fund had given
1,000 CR rupees for the welfare of Migrant workers where has this money
gone we asked under the RTI act to various Ministries relevant Ministries
that please tell us where did that 1,000 CR rupees go which govern state
government did you give it to what happened to it no information all that they say is that this is not a Public
Authority so people have been filing RTI applications approaching information
commissions approaching the courts since 2020 unfortunately these matters even
when they have come up for hearing there's been no conclusion there's been no judgment that has come so far the the
matter has not be the PM Care's fund has not been struck down like you said we
are nearing the end of 2024 four it's been four years it's a very long time we
are going into election after election we have a situation where this fund
continues to be a black hole where behind a veale of secrecy money is getting collected at a very large scale
and we don't know where that money is going who is giving that money I mean in
between there is there are concerns that some Chinese firms might be giving the money there are concerns that some other
firms I mean we need need to know why should people be left to guess all of this in a democracy I mean are we a
democracy or not this is not an unreasonable demand to make from
citizens that please tell us you've set up a fund a lot of people I remember when the PM carees fund was set up Neu
said that where is the need for a new fund but there were many who said that it's all right you know if the Prime
Minister feels if the government feels a new fund is required that's okay but it's not okay to not be transparent you
cannot set up funds like this instruments like this and not be transparent it completely diminishes
public trust this kind of lack of transparency is totally diminishing
public trust in the prime minister's office in the manner in which the prime
minister is functioning in this trust and I think that it's very very critical
that there must be immediate corrective action in the Electoral bonds case the
court did not simply strike down electoral bonds Neu it also said that
retrospectively give information tell us how much money was given by whom and to
which party I think in this particular case the court must ask for full
disclosure also the court must say that give details of every penny because
that's what we need in a democracy when we say what you're saying and what
you're mentioning is very very significant but the point is that the way the government has been exposed in
the Electoral bonds case and of course uh the courts helped the entire system
in not reaching to a a logical conclusion because the inquiry wasn't instituted nobody will be able to know
and it's the case is almost over now so similarly do you think that the government will really open up on its
Secrets as far as the PM carees fund is concerned after having burnt its hands with the Electoral Bond
case so Neu let me let me put it this way if the government had its way we
would not know today who gave electoral bonds and to whom and although the court
refused to set up an independent inquiry an sit the court has said that wherever
it is clear in the Electoral bonds that there is corruption that can be agitated
and can finally come to the courts so I would say very strongly that two things
did happen in the Electoral bonds case one is at least you and I and the whole
country today knows who got the money from whom and how much the second thing
that we all know is that in what proximity did a company give money to
the ruling party and get a contract in return worth billions of rupees pce so we have information today at least that
is there for everyone to see and make up their mind and I think that the whole uh
sort of you know facade that was created of absolutely no corruption total you
know clean hands that was at least the mirror was cracked now I think that what
we need to do here is that the PM cares fund likewise H the court has to take
the first step first the court has to declare this uh to be a Public Authority
and the court must and I hope they do with uphold our rights to information
and just like the Electoral bonds case say that there is no reason why this
information should not be put in the public domain once you I the media the
citizens of the country get to know which company was giving money to which
which uh to the PM carees fund which is really uh a fund which is being controlled by the Prime Minister and the
ruling party ministers there will be a lot of things that will become clear quit proo if there is any will become
clear it will become clear if there is any extortion that's happening any regulatory inaction that's happening it
will become clear and I think that is always the first step towards accountability and of course in the
Electoral bonds matter I don't think the matter is closed I think there are people and I'm very
certain there will there are cases that are being uh looked into people will
file complaints on the basis of the information that has come out which will eventually again reach the courts
including the Supreme Court of the country and we have to keep hope that there will be accountability even on
that front but certainly there was a lot of accountability which I hope to see in the PM cares because like I said this is
akin to the Electoral bonds instrument just like the Electoral bonds could be
misused for quit proo this has the same potential to be misused by the ruling
party of our country at the center to do quit Proco and to uh to also do other
kinds of wrongdoing potentially and the information should be in the public domain I would say that if the Prime
Minister has nothing to hide if this government has nothing to hide they should come forward they should not wait
for a judgment by the Supreme Court to give this information there is no reason
if there is no wrongdoing to withhold this information from people one last
question Angel before I wind up uh the interview that is this one of the
darkest secrets of prime minister's office and if at all they are uh nabbed
they are caught in the wrong their wrongdoings are caught who who do you think is going to be held responsible will it be prime minister will it be the
Finance Minister or where where will the buck stop here in this particular
case well I think uh the it's quite clear Neu that this has been set up as a
trust the trust has as the chairperson the prime minister of the country and
you know in in his ex official capacity there are ministers who are on the board
of the trust they are trustees so I mean if we find that there is some uh
something some wrongdoing that's happening of course they will be accountable how can the chairperson of
the trust if the trust is found to be doing something wrong not be accountable not be the person who's answerable how
can the trustees the ministers who s who are sitting there not be held accountable and answerable so I think
it's quite clear it of course will depend on what comes out if there is
wrongdoing if there is information that's put out and we get to know that the uh you know people in the government or
other agencies were complicit that's very different but as far as the trust is concerned the buck stops with the
chairperson who happens to be the prime minister of our country so I think that it's quite clear that the accountability
finally rests with the board of the trust which at the moment is claiming to be a private body a private trust but
there is really absolutely no logical reason to say that this is a private
body and it has to be a Public Authority it has collected money saying that it's
a Public Authority and it has no business today turn around and tell the citizens of this country we will not
give you information we will not be accountable we are a private body so I think you feel this is and you feel that
this is one of the biggest scams in fact bigger than the Electoral Bond I think
that this is a huge huge scam the fact that the information is being withheld
itself to me is scandalous but in terms of a scam only data can tell us what is
happening if we don't have information you know people lose public trust how
large the scam is how large the corruption is can only come to light be
known once information is out in the public domain I cannot say whether it'll be smaller or larger than electoral
bonds but like I said it is scandalous that information is not being provided
in our democracy whether it is a scam and how big the scam is only time will tell when we know the information and I
hope very much for the sake of our democracy that we get to know soon